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Post by alistair on May 27, 2005 19:40:59 GMT -5
I know there are some guys out there who hunt and i must say that it should be outlawed to hunt or eat meat for that matter. Every animal diserves to live without the fate of being digested into a humans food chain.
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Post by Firefly on May 27, 2005 21:45:03 GMT -5
I think it is alright to hunt. Humans too are lera and we need to eat to survive aswell. but I am highly disgusted by some humans who call themselves hunters and kill for 'game and fun'
GOOD Hunting for a purpose. Using the meat of the animal and trying not too waste everypart of it.
BAD Hunting for game or pleasure. That losers who just wander out at 'hunting season' to shoot soem deer and whatnot for fun. GRR. or those who kill the animal to harvest only what they neet from it, like pelts and skins and then dispose the rest of the animal. A waste it is.
I think hunting is right when it is natural
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Nocturnia Diiore
Sikla
?The Chuck Norris of wolfdom?
Transylvania's Original Obsidian Terror.
Posts: 432
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Post by Nocturnia Diiore on May 29, 2005 0:13:16 GMT -5
Oh, I was wondering how long it would take before this would come up. I don't think anyone ever brought up the hunting subject for what it was on the old TS - I think they just complained about over-hunting, killing foxes, killing deer, and killing seals. Something around there.
Anyways, to your pathetic excuse for why hunting should be outlawed, Alistair, I have one word to say to you in response:
Foodchain.
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Post by Red February on May 29, 2005 12:04:48 GMT -5
Lol, well, to your reply (which you think can possibly counter Alistar), I'd have to interject. If Alistar was claiming that all carniverous animals shouldn't have those eating habits, I'd be on your side.
The reason humans evolved to their level of "intelligence" is because, when they descended the trees as simians, they began to eat meat. Meat is what made their brains develop the way they did. Humans eating meat is just a way of evolution, no? So far, I'm on your side Nocturnia.
But then, many humans are very stupid things and don't think about the affect of their actions on Earth. This probably seems extremely inconsiderate when you remember that Earth's other creatures most likely don't even think about how they are effecting the planet. BUT they are only focused on survival. This is what gets most of us, I think. We don't have to concentrate on survival; our lives are so luxurious and so forth that we have time to reflect on our actions.
Human beings don't need to eat meat anymore, especially when they raise animals for the soul purpose of those animals being consumed.
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Post by alistair on May 29, 2005 12:18:30 GMT -5
Exactly. And to the foodchain comment. People now days would not be able to eat as much meat if they didn't have guns, spears, machines and knives.
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Post by Tamra on May 29, 2005 12:38:32 GMT -5
*assumes Alistair is vegetarian*
Ok, maybe it's just my urbanisation, but who actually hunts for their meat these days? Deer maybe, but round here we tend to hand rear our cattle or sheep, then send them off to the knackers yard, where they are humanely slaughtered.
Hunting for pleasure is weird, but understandable. Thats why I currently am totally against the hunting ban imposed by the labour government. *growls at Tony* Its like telling a dog it can't chase the cat, because the cat gets upset. Its human impulse to hunt, just like its canine impulse to chase the cat.
*sits back and waits for counter arguments to roll on in*
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Post by alistair on May 29, 2005 12:48:44 GMT -5
You guys need to read the book The Far Side of Evil. It's about how civilizations can go one of two was when they develop technology: 1)they can go colonize outerspace 2)they now have the power to blow up the Earth. (Like nuclear war.)
We should put our efforts into something better, like channel our instincts to develop something better. It's getting us nowhere to just keep giving into things that we think are primitive and ALSO call ourselves civilized.
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Post by Red February on May 29, 2005 12:52:00 GMT -5
Hey Tamra!
Yeah, Alistar used to be a vegitarian, and so did I. I don't remember her exact reason for that diet, but I can tell you mine. It wasn't because animal slaughter is unjust, it was because I didn't earn it. I believe that if I didn't atleast make an effort to harvest/butcher the food I was eating, I didn't deserve to eat it.
*making efforts* Lol
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Nocturnia Diiore
Sikla
?The Chuck Norris of wolfdom?
Transylvania's Original Obsidian Terror.
Posts: 432
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Post by Nocturnia Diiore on May 29, 2005 12:57:44 GMT -5
Last time I checked, we were talking about hunting, not outerspace and the world blowing up. (:
The only time I have a problem with hunting is when what is being hunted does not have any edible meat on it. For instance, elephants and tigers. Hunters enjoy shooting game only to have a wild animal in their home. They get their trophies stuffed and either sell them or keep them. Most hunters do, indeed, use the meat and fur/feathers that they earn, as well - I believe that there is a law somewhere about cold-blooded killing and wasting of resources. ..Somewhere in hunting laws, I would presume.
Anyways, it is indeed human impulse to hunt, and this is also similar to lions and other carnivores. They kill, take what they want by feeding, and leave the carcass for other animals to consume, such as vultures and hyenas. I don't know if I'm making any sense or not, but.. I'm trying.
Personally, I don't care about hunting unless it's seals in Canada or a breed of animal that is NOT overpopulated. The only reason hunting is legal in some areas is because the animals are overpopulating because humans have driven the carnivores away.
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Post by Red February on May 29, 2005 13:33:57 GMT -5
Haha! I know you are smarter than you are letting on, Nocturnia. You want to make a smart remark about her supporting point because most people wouldn't make the connection that it's supporting how hunting is wrong. Good one.
I agree with how you are saying creatures have the impulse to kill, like the blood-lust on the Sight, and how we are controlling the overpopulation that is our fault. Humans should try to correct their wrongs right, even though it is screwing up our world further.
What makes us think that we're the ones that are responsible for taking care of Earth? Who said we were the supreme to be incharge? I'm not against humans doing what they can, but it seems so weird that we assumed that role like that.
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Post by Tamra on May 29, 2005 13:46:24 GMT -5
Because we're are the species that developed the whole shabang of emotions and intelligence and foresight. Thats why we got the job of caring for the planet.
Now, before we go off into the sideline of 'yea, but how do we know]/i] we're the most intelligent species on earth?' the simple answer is we don't. We probably never will, unless some freaky discovery is made so we can understand animals. Then we might know. But I digress. Hunting. Legitimate. Yes.
*minor modification* When I mention that I agree with hunting, I forget to specify my hunting beliefs. I am pro fox hunting. Foxes are a pest. I have seen first hand what one alone can do to an entire flock of chickens. And they don't kill them all for food either. No single fox, nay even a fox with cubs could possibly eat that many chickens. So yes, I firmly believe fox hunting is a legitmate cause for hunting. However, I do think what I class as 'game' hunting, i.e. hunting elephants for their tusks, is so very wrong. These animals are humanely controlled in various safari parks already, they are not classfied as pests, and whats more, they're endangered. The likelyhood of foxes becoming an endangered spieces is virtually zero.
Ineresting point to add for all those who state that hunting animals like tigers is wrong because the whole carcass isn't used...what about eastern medicines? That pretty much uses the entire animal. Not that I'm in agreement with it, being a devout westerner, but I thought I'd bring it up all the same.
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Post by Cwen on May 29, 2005 14:06:28 GMT -5
Lol - well basically here's my point of view on teh whole subject.
Vegetarians have the right to not eat meat and express their opnions. But they shouldn't make those who eat meat feel bad about what they naturally were born to do! I mean we're omnivores, and there-fore we have the enzymes within out digestive system to eat meat and digest it.
And about hutning - no i don't agree with it unless you use the whole animal. Those who hunt for fun should be shot for the mere pleasure it would give me to kill a game hunter who hunts for pleasure. Not animal deserves to die unless it has a purpose for it's death - and by purpose i don't mean for it's head to be severed and placed apon a trophy wall.
People are sent to prison because they kill other people...why not send those who hunt for fun to prison? Murderers kill people not to eat (unless they are cannibals...) but either because they have problems in their head or for revenge and other stuff...sometimes not even intentional! And yet they are punished! Yet those stupid hunters out there who hunt to make themselves feel good about themselves and to make them feel more supreme...i don't see them being thrown in prison or being given the death-penalty?
We are animals...so why can't animals of other species be given the same rights and respects as ourselves jsut because their brains haven't evolved s highly as out own?
It's stupid. That's all i have to say on this matter...for the moment anyway
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Post by Tamra on May 29, 2005 15:13:40 GMT -5
*points Cwen up to latter part of modified previous post*
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Post by Red February on May 30, 2005 9:51:54 GMT -5
This debate is very pointless, since both sides have even arguments. But to Tamara, I have to say this:
You talk of fox hunting being okay because foxes are a pest, no? The same would go to deer and any other overpopulated species... does this include humans? Why can humans get punished for killing another human, which would only be population control, but not even get chastised for murdering any other animal. Why does the animal have to be overpopulated? Does that give you the right to kill something? They didn't choose to live, as we are all aware. No one can go tell their parents they want to be brought into the world.
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Nocturnia Diiore
Sikla
?The Chuck Norris of wolfdom?
Transylvania's Original Obsidian Terror.
Posts: 432
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Post by Nocturnia Diiore on May 30, 2005 20:45:23 GMT -5
Tamra - You know, nobody thought that passenger pigeons would become endangered and eventually extinct, either. I agree that this is quite the pointless debate, but one has to admit that it is interesting to see and know everyone's points of view on the subject. Let's face it, though, we cannot stop hunting and overkill, and there is certainly no way that everyone on this site can get together and randomly march in protest over New York or London or wherever. -Shrug- Everything is going to either die or evolve eventually, anyways. And I think I've run out of things to say on this subject. Oh, and Canneberge - That's because an animal is something that is less intelligent than man. There might be a similar law for animals, as well - we may never know because the world is too focused on what doesn't matter.
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