Hunting right or wrong

[Tarriq]

*sighs* I just skimemd this and found it amazingly stupid. This is an age-old topic; its been decided over and over again that animals such as deer starve to death and kill each other over land and such- tell me, especially Alistiar (?), would you rather see a deer kileld instantly, or suffer with starvavtion? That scene in fire Bringer, where Rannoch (I think it was him..) found those two dead deer locked together- that happens, you know, and both deer died. From both starvavtion and dehydartion, and probably open wounds.

[Farrah]

Sorry to butt in so late in the game, but here's my say. OK, some of you talk about not hunting yet still eating captive animals that are slaughtered "humanely'. It is not always so. I do not live in France, but I know for a fact that this is happening.

Horses are killed to make food. Weird concept for me, in the USA. As a truthful statement, I've never eaten horse. And, I REALLY don't want to. However, it happens. But, that's not the part that hurts my very soul. It's the way they are murdered that worries me. First, people lead the horses through a path, kind of like in the movie Gordy, if any of you have ever seen it. They are then tied to a post. Someone shoots them between the eyes. The effect of this is supposed to be sudden and immediate death that is painless. However, some of the horses are still breathing when they get chopped up into "patties." Another thing (this is the French one) is with ducks. The famous duck liver patty (which is really spelled and pronounced differently, but I don't want to make a fool of myself by trying to act smart and spelling it wrong.) You see, the ducks are fattened up with corn. Big whoop right? How they are fattened is the problem. You see, their feet are nailed down so they cannot escape. Then they are force fed. And force fed...and force fed...and force fed until finally their liver cannot take the oncoming food any longer and they croak. However, their livers are so swolen when they die that they can be sold for even higher prices because of their size. It's terrible what happens to some of the animals as they die. I'm not a vegetarian, but I make sure not to eat Burger King or MacDonalds food because I know what happens to their animals (besides the fact that Burger King let their herds of cows loose in some of the outskirts of the rainforest in South America killing off some of it that will never grow back...but that's beside the point.) Hunting, as is said above, is OK if the whole animal is used. I still slightly disagree with the whole to hunt Vs. not to hunt foxes. Even though they are pests, they can still be trapped and released far away so they never return. They do not have to be shot to be rid of them. It's just like the cat population in Michigan. Cat hunting is legal even though they never eat the cats (that's gross anyway). They just want to dispose of them because there are so many feril cats there. Personally, I am a feline lover as much as canine lover. I can't stand to have that happening to them. Why shoot them if they can be sent to a humane society where they will either be peacefully and painlessly euthanized or adopted by a family that will love them?

[Lydair]

Shoot me, guys. I'm serious. I am so disgusted right now I could just...I'm not even goign to say it. XP But I hope i never meet alistair in rl or their would be some fireworks that could be seen in like Japan and Antartica, that's how bad I would explode. I LOVE hunting, mostly because you get to walk 10 or 12 miles and its so FUN to hike that much to me. Yes, I shoot animals, squirrels, deer, coyotes, turkey, and pheasent. I alos believe animals have feelings and emotions, but i tune it out when i go hunting.
Alistair, you are...-explodes- Humans were here the same time we were; read your BIBLE! Sky's sake, come on, kid! be a vegitarian, I don't care, but we did NOT evolve from monkeys or whatever bs those stupid scientists say. We have been hutning since before the ice ages, when the cavemen and neanderthals were here, and before them. They hunting unhumanely, because usually they would use stones or blunt spears and such. or fire, to burn them.
I LOVE horses, and I know how they are killed; its actually far worse than what Farrah said but i'll probably make someone throw up so I won't explain it in detail. But I LOVE hutning, and I LOVE venison and turkey and such, so its not a problem.
As for extinction, none of ther animals we are currently allowed to shoot will become extinct, I promise. Deer die from starvation and hunger, diseases, and such, and also loss of habitat. So don't say they'll go extinct; we know the boundaries and there's laws for it.

I just rambled, but i could go on and on and on and on some more, but then I'd get mad and u[set and rash and i'd be kicked out. >.< Sorry guys, my week hasn't been so hot at home, so forgive me if I'm being exceptionally mean or vicious ina post instead of my usually sweet and caring self.

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[Nocturnia Diiore]

My opinion on horse slaughter : If it's not my horse, I don't care. I've eaten horse meat before, and it's actually quite good. Horses are just animals, they're definitely not endangered - got to do something with them when they aren't needed anymore.

Edit: I can't believe this debate is still going..

[Lydair]

DON’T READ THIS IF YOU’RE GOING TO THROW UP- KINDA GRAPHC, IN A VERBAL WAY.

Geesh, Nocty…nice pics…

***I’m used putting warnings like this because on some websites you get kicked off for it. PLEASE DON'T KICK ME OFF...***
The Horses are rounded up into pens and hung by hooves, hocks, and necks and are lowered; a 5-6 inch nail is driven through their skull twice at maximum but this doesn’t kill them. They are then lifted and are slit from jaw to horsy mare/stally parts and they then have their heads chopped off; however this can be a waste so often they are simply hung to die, like Nocty's pictures show to bleed out. Their legs are severed, as is their mane and tail, and they are flayed and chopped up.


O.O Sorry about the...graphicness..?

[Nocturnia Diiore]

Oh, Lydair, you won't be kicked off because you're describing the way that a horse is slaughtered, hun. Promise, because if they try to get you banned I'll throw it back into their face and suspend them, hahar!

The way that you described isn't much different from cows, really, seeing as they are bled before they are chopped up. Yes, and aren't my pictures goooorgeous? I thought they were rather lovely, really. And I'm going to use horse pelts to create an equine fursuit some time around Christmas, so basically, I'm using the fur of the slaughtered horses, so not everything is going to waste, really, right?

[Trile]

I don't mean to turn this into a whole religion thing, but there is no proof that the bible is even real. You just go by blind faith or take to the few fossils there are in the evelution theory. I personally believe in evelution and am an athiest, but I have no problem with religions. I'd just like to say to Lydair that you could call religion stupid too and you'd get no where, and also both ways around it's affending. Anyway, what I"ve seen of the house thing I think is cruel. They're alive too, so why do they deserve to die painfully when they could just be ended quickly. Sure we need to eat, though I'm not sure if hourse meat is very popular, dunno, but I just don't agree with making them suffer.

[Lydair]

Oh, sorry Trile. Didn't mean to offend you, or anybody. Want me to change it? I don't believe in it either, the horse thing at least- the least they could do would be to put them to sleep peacefully. Tood bad they dont. Oh well, there's really not much you can do, anyway, unlesss you were like govenor or something.
Aye, I realize the bible might not be real, and for a long time I would have agreed with you 100%, but I just don't think we could come from monkies. -shrugs and grins- Sorry for offending you, Trile.

[Farrah]

About the Bible, I could go on forever about its realistic qualities. However, this is all I have to say (by the way, Trile, all hopes of your non-religious post have just gone down the drain )
You know that they found Noah's ark? If you haven't heard, it's because it's on top of the mountain on which it originally landed, being banned by the government when it comes to tourists. Not even religious scientists are allowed to go see if it's authentic. Some guy took pictures and posted them on the internet. He got arrested for going there illegally and the pics are now erased...too bad or I'd direct you to the website. *sigh* Anyway, I have no doubts that the Bible is real...I would say alot more than that, but if you want, you can read some of my other opinions in the poem "saved." For those of you who don't know if the Bible's real, I am sorry that you do not think that way and will not make you believe in Christ (you can lead a horse to water ((poor horses in pics above...)) but you can't make it drink) but I urge you to become a Christian. Again, I don't wanna sound like some religious turkey who claims the world is now condemned and we are all going to die *blah blah blah* (but wasn't the earth and all its inhabitants dying from the day of their birth?), but...you know...the usual "Jesus loves you" thing. He really does. I don't wanna make this a lecture about *says in a terribly insulting singsongy sunday school voice* "Jesus loves you and blady blady blah! No! That is not what this is about. Jesus really does love you, whether you believe it or not. You are his child, and that's just the way my faith is. Sorry if this insults some of you, but we all express our beliefs every day. In fact, everyone who posted anywhere on the debate board has expressed their opinions and probably insulted someone in the process. Again, sorry if I do, but I believe this is the place to do it.

Back to debating *cough cough*
About the horses...ewww...ewww...ewww...I really didn't want to see that. Good thing my cousing isn't allowed on the Sight anymore. She'd be banned because of all the things she'd say to you. Horses are her favorite animals and she would kill anyone who says otherwise...whether in mind, body or spirit...it would be done. Anyway, I still don't really like hunting, but I agree with Lydair about species dying out because of starvation ((I really need to get my friend on here...you guys are so much alike! That would be interesting!)) but I still don't like the whole concept. That's not just my goody-two-shoes Christian self popping out. That's just my personality. I hate it when animals (humans or not) suffer. Anyway, again, don't get mad at me (or ban me!) for my views please! Because that's exactly what they are: views. They are not written in stone! They're just my opinions! Sorry for apologizing over and over too!

[Yelæ]

Ugh, what, er, loveleh pictures...

Anyway -looks away- I'm the kind of person who gets sqeamish from blood, and would definately not hunt/slaughter/ect. andy animal, but that does not mean I am against hunting. Hunting for no reason is bad, but hunting for food is perfectly fine, and clothing as well. Because, well, food keeps us alive, and clothing used with animal fur keeps us just plain warm 'n toasty! -grins-

My grandparent's family bussiness is that they sell fur coats, and I'll get this loveleh mink cap to keep me warm this holidy! And I amd no vegitarian, though I never had eaten any meat besides Turky, CHicken, Cow, Pig, or any (as I say) "normal" meat products that they sell at the ShopRite in my neighborhood...

Any-hoo, I would rather see the dead animals killed graciously and used as food or coats rather than watching them starve from lack of enviroment and space. Its only nature, and even us animal lovers agree: Hunting is perfectly fine for the right reasons. How else could we be RPing wolves?

((Bah, that was probably my most confusing post...ever! I don't even understand it...o.O))

[Phantom]

I'm against hunting for sport. Heck, I don't even call it "hunting for sport" anymore. I call it needless slaughter.

I believe hunting from an airplane or from a tree is just plain wrong. Hunting is when you track your prey. You find it yourself. When you're hiding in a tree, or chasing your prey in a plane, it's a very unfair advantage.

I understand if you need the animal for food, then that's another matter. Humans are animals, too [though we're taught to ignore that fact]. We were born with a hunting instinct, like all creatures. What I don't understand is this: why we can't just take what we need. We kill and kill and kill. We chop off the slaughtered's head and tack it to a wall. The rest is usually thrown out. (Kodus to the few people who actually use most of their kill.

And, I don't mean to offend you Lydair, but you can go hiking without killing someone [yes, I said someone]

That's why I admire Native Americans. They were in tune with nature's balance. They killed only what they needed, and paid their respects to the spirit of the animal that they killed. I also admire how they made sure that no part of their prey went to waste.

So yeah, those are my beliefs...

[Trile]

Excuse me Farrah, what do you mean my hope has gone down the drain? Are you telling me that just because of that I'm going to change around my whole views? You better up and respect what I believe in and don't bother trying to change me, because it will never happen. I'm proud to be an athiest, and you go on being proud of being religious, but I never said anything rude to you, so back off. To me, you sound like a religous turkey. I have never told you to not become a Christian, but you want me too? Why, will I go to hell if I don't believe in God? I have a right to think what I want, and no one is gonna change that. I'm fine with your religion, but I think it is the simplest mindest thing in the world to tell peopl that they hope they'll think the way they do. And the rudest. Because I'm proud of being an athiest, so I'd drop your sorry attempt to change me now.

It's okay Lydair, just saying. But I think this should really be taken up with someone who has the power of changing it. Of course, there is a lot of difference between talking and acting. *shrugs* I don't really no what to think about hunting. We have plenty to eat if we can afford it so why kill things you don't need, but than again why not if you use every part and respect what you've killed? So I dunno.

[Farrah]

Sorry if I sounded that way. Sometimes I forget that I could be repugnant...I guess I'm just stuck up. Sorry. I meant that when you said you didn't want it to turn into a religious post...and I quote:

"I don't mean to turn this into a whole religion thing..."

I was merely pointing out that when you had not wanted it to, it had. Sorry if it came out wrong. I do respect your religious views; that doesn't mean I believe in them just as you obviously don't agree with mine. Everyone is different. I respect that. About going to hell, it all depends. No one can PROVE that those who don't believe actually do. So I cannot promise that. That's what I believe. You have the right to disagree. Again, I didn't mean to offend you. Just as you are an atheist, atheists believe in NOT spreading the faith AS part of their faith. Christianity IS spreading the faith AS part of the faith. So I am merely playing my part. Sorry to have offended you on that point as well. I really don't think I'm a religious TURKEY. Actually, up till a few months ago, I was a religious CHICKEN. I didn't say anything about God or Jesus, but now my life is changed. Maybe I've turned into a relgious something, but I don't think I would characterize myself as a turkey. Actually, Benjamin Franklin of the founding fathers of the United States of America wanted the national emblem to be a turkey instead of an eagle. Personally, I liked the character of Ben Franklin. If he thought of a turkey, there must be a good reason. Why is it rude to not ask people to think the way you do? You just did. By saying your views you were inviting me to agree. Thus, you were circumnavigating the word "asking" and kind of replacing it with "cordially requesting." I was not trying to change you. You can stay the way you are. I'm OK with that. That's fine. I was just sharing my beliefs publicly. Is that wrong to you? If it is, again, I'm sorry.
AGAIN: back to the hunting issue and away from focusing on the newly proclaimed religious turkey. If no one raised livestock, there would be no food. Raising and killing is kind of a shortcut around hunting. I understand why Lydair likes to hunt. My dad does to, and I LOVE venison and quail. However, I don't think I could ever bring myself to actually DO it unless I absolutely needed to. I understand both of your views and the reasons for supporting, but I think I'm stuck in the middle on this one.
((Sorry, Trile, for picking on you, but I think it's funny that you're banner says "right to hunt" when you're opposed. It just struck me as ironic, though I know you don't mean it that way...but as a wolf. I just saw the words at the same time and thought it was funny. Just thought I'd let you know. And, just to make sure I didn't make a fool of myself by explaining who Ben Franklin was, where's your location. Mine (haven't you guessed by the way I accidentally use "yall" and "fixin'" in my posts?) is in the Deep South of the good old US of A. Actually, it's young but...oh never mind....Just wondering...)

[Uskiya]

The pictures on the internet could've been fake, it's really easy to do that sort of thing. Religion has always been a touchy subject, I was religious but am not as of now, though I am looking into all the religions and it's kinda fun. Just seeing all the likeness and differences.

For hunting I like, I think if you use what you kill and don't go hunting for fun, like Phantom said with the native americans and using everything, it's very resourceful. I do have a question purely for my interst. For anybody really but especially for the people against hunting, I was wondering how they view predator's hunting? I'm just curious about it, because I'v never really asked anybody before.

[Phantom]

Ahh, good question Uskiya.

Well, predatory hunting is natural. Predators prey on other creatures because they need to eat and survive. They take only what they need, and nothing more. They don't kill for the "fun" of it.

Predatory hunting is for survival. It's simply nature's way.

So yeah, to answer your question, that's my view on it.