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Post by alistair on Jun 12, 2005 9:43:14 GMT -5
In spite of if someone alreday said this, you know Animals have lives to and families and they fnd love and live life like all of us so put your selves in their positiion and think like what if you had just had a family or something and you see a human or somthing bigger than you carrying an unknown weponand shoot you. You have a family and have found love and then some oversized creature kills you so you can be stuffed like a show monkey thing and be put in thier domain. How Barbaric is it not?
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Kalma
Newborn
I horrify baby chocobo's. Bad me! Bad!
Posts: 2
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Post by Kalma on Jun 14, 2005 19:29:58 GMT -5
Okay, I read through all of this, and most of my view points on hunting were added. I just have this to add:
Humans are now very, very lazy creatures. Most of them don't even do their own thinking and let others think for them, becuase thinking for themselves can be too hard. So, that's why most people don't hunt for themselves and instead depend on farmers and grocery stores for food. BUT there are those who get restless and still feel the old instincts that we, in our laziness, have pretty much lost. Those who feel this restlessness feel quite dicontented, no matter how "good" their lifestyle is considered. So, in order to get rid of their restlessness, they listen to instinct and go out hunting. Then, finding that this helps cure it, they hunt more and more in order to feel satisfied with their life.
No, I'm not saying that I find all hunting good. I still feel as many of you do: as long as you use the whole of the animal, it's okay. But once you waste the animal it's not. I'm just simply doing a psycho-analysis of mankind. *nods*
Though, I must admit that the biggest thing that I hate about human hunters is that they have the nerve to kill off thousands of carabou, and then go blame it on the wolves. Seriously, they do that. Kill off all the deer and then go whine to the people who are protecting the wolves the biggest lie ever: "Wolves are killing off all the carabou! There's non left for us!" Which, for those who don't know, is the farthest thing from the truth. Yes, this is one of the biggest things that I hate about hunting.
Of course, that's just regular hunting, I am absolutely opposed to canned-hunting. It's really unfair to the animal and gives them no chance at all of surviving. (And for those who don't know: When one does a canned-hunt one gets a carnivore somehow and in someway and then one proceeds to get rid of the carnivore's defences (like for a cat their teeth and claws, for a dog their teeth) and then takes it somewhere (usually a hidden and secluded area where they won't be found) and then let's it out of the cage, gives it about a milli-second head start, and then one lets the dogs out and the dogs pull the carnivore down while one shoots said carnivore. Yes, people actually do this and think themselves the greatest hunters ever after shooting the poor creature.)
Okay, that's all for now. ^___^
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Nocturnia Diiore
Sikla
?The Chuck Norris of wolfdom?
Transylvania's Original Obsidian Terror.
Posts: 432
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Post by Nocturnia Diiore on Jun 14, 2005 20:06:56 GMT -5
Alistair, hate to burst your bubble, but it's known that animals do not have the intelligence to know emotions. They rely only on instincts, and that's why they run when they come upon something unfamiliar, like humans. They aren't thinking, 'Oh, I've got family! Don't shoot me!', they're simply running away from something they do not know. It's like the animals who wander around towns because they've become used to humans - wild pigs, caribou, moose, etc., have been known to scuttle around human towns because they have become used to the human race and do not find them a threat anymore. In other words, animals are, quite bluntly, stupid and do not understand.
Kalma - I agree with you on canned hunting. It ought to be banned. ..And again I have nothing more to say.
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Kalma
Newborn
I horrify baby chocobo's. Bad me! Bad!
Posts: 2
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Post by Kalma on Jun 14, 2005 21:54:04 GMT -5
Canned hunting is banned, but people do it illegally any ways. *sigh* It's very sad what length some people will go to to kill other living beings.
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Post by alistair on Jun 20, 2005 15:11:38 GMT -5
ok first how is it PROVEN that animals can't have emotions....(dogs cry and stuff when they get hurt right) Have scientists been turned into animals and do they know how it's like? huh NO they don't.
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Nocturnia Diiore
Sikla
?The Chuck Norris of wolfdom?
Transylvania's Original Obsidian Terror.
Posts: 432
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Post by Nocturnia Diiore on Jun 20, 2005 15:17:40 GMT -5
Studies on human intelligence and animal intelligence can be done by studying the brain. The thought that an animal could be able to talk or be smart enough to know emotions is a fantasy, for animals rely on instinct to know what to do in different situations. Sorry, but this debate isn't really getting anywhere. I thought this was a thread about hunting, not animal intelligence.
Canned hunting, for the most part, has indeed been banned, but some places have been overlooked, like parts of Africa and such where the world does not bother to look - hunters weasel their ways into these places. Of course, whenever some type of hunting restriction or ban is issued, this is always what happens, no?
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Post by alistair on Jun 22, 2005 12:15:57 GMT -5
ok science CAN be wrong you know........ besides how do we know that animals can feel it's like saying they're not alive it's incorrect!....yes we have been a little off track, have we not?.
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Rishka
Newborn
always wondering, forever alone
Posts: 16
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Post by Rishka on Jun 22, 2005 15:43:59 GMT -5
I personally agree with eatting meat, and hunting. Go ahead and stone me and get mad at me, tell me I'm a murderer. It's not going to change anything.
I would also like to take this time to point out that humans are NOT the only animals to kill for sport. Domestic felines (aka your precious housecat) are vicious, masastic butchers. They will strike anything that moves and then torment it until that creature isn't moving any more. And, seeing how they are wellfed housepets, most then do not even eat the carcass. Now I am not bashing cats, I love them and own three, and I will throw things at whoever argues with me or screams not there precious kitty! Put your cat in the same room with a mouse after it's eatten, 9 times out of 10 you'll come back to a dead mouse, and 8 out of those 9 times the moust will not be eatten. Cats hunt for sport to 'hone their hunting skills' which is why they are such awesome killers when they are hunting. Also weasles are banned from coming into the United States because they also kill for sport. The entire wealse / stoat / ferret family does just that and they have been known to wipe out entire populations of vermits.
Now what I want to know is why vegitarians are against humans going out and hunting when other animals do it to.
Now, as for "us knowing what's right and wrong". Eatting meat is right. Human beings are omnivores, we have gained our intelligence over the generations by eatting meat, we have survived and gotten strong by eatting meat. Our bodies digest the nutrients in it and give us engry, while they often have times digesting the nutrients in non-meat things. Sugars, carbs, ect. Also, there are certian vitimans that can only be found in meat that our bodies need, such as B12. And yes, we can take vitamins to get these nutriants because of technology - but I personally would rather eat something that tastes good then pop a pill. There is also the problem that not everyone can digest the awesomely raw power of a vitimen. I can't take calcium or fiber pills because my kidneys can't handle it and I become very sick and start excreeting blood (to put it gently) Do I and people like me deserve to be unhealthy and shrivel away because eatting meat is "wrong" and I should take pills? Isn't that more inhuman to sacrifice the health of a human for an animal that we have raised and made overpopulated just for the purpous of killing?
Also, there are certian nutrients in meat that feeds our brains. It is a proven fact that vegitarians are easier to brainwash and hyponotis. Interesting, no?
Humans have hunted forever. Once we stopped scavenging and starting making our own kills our civiliation and population suddenly took a major boom that made us into what we are today. And for those of you who take religious standpoints about God's creatures - the Bible states they were put on this earth for our use and consumption. It's God's will for me to kick back with a nice juicy steak on my dinner plate.
Hunting controls populations of animals that would otherwise become overpopulated and destroy the ecosystem. There are to many deer in Colorado and all of a sudden look - Hoof and Mouth, disease pops up and it's something that will kill and infect other species - HUMAN BEINGS CAN DIE. Hoof and Mouth is natures way of saying to much, and now it's hurting people. So what do we do? We take away hunting regulations, kick back the deer popluation a bit until it's not a threat and then we impose laws again and everything is fine. Hunting endangered animals is illegal, the only animals we are allowed to hunt are those that can and will become over populated because we have taken away their natural preditors that keep down their population. We are doing nature a favor because we already screwed up by killed off cougars, wolves, and everything else. Excessive sport hunting is also under laws. You can only kill so many of any animal during a hunt season, it keeps animals and hunters in check. It's something we need to do or the populations will boom and it will harm and infect other species and the ecosystem.
Not everyone follows hunting laws. The same as not everyone follows the speed limit. People are caught and they are punished for breaking rules, it's the way of life.
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Post by Moon Crypt on Jun 23, 2005 2:26:33 GMT -5
As much as i try to stay clear of the Debate board i thought you might want to have one more Vegetarian's opinion in this matter.
I'm pretty relaxed about my whole situation. I was raised a vegetarian and over the years i've come to respect my ways and the ways of others. I have nothing against other people eating meat so dont go about labeling vegetarian's as "its wrong for everyone to eat me" Nazis cause personally i think its up to you to decide what you want to eat. Not my problem. I do adore animals and it is sad to see like cows swallowed up but it has to be. You can't just make the world stop eating cows and such.
As for Rishka's last questions: Now what I want to know is why vegitarians are against humans going out and hunting when other animals do it to.
This vegetarian has nothing against you doing it. Sure i admit i dont like seeing bambi killed or hunted for sport but thats again MY personal opinion.
Also, there are certian nutrients in meat that feeds our brains. It is a proven fact that vegitarians are easier to brainwash and hyponotis. Interesting, no?
Sure we may not get those nutrients but it doesn't deprive us from being smart individuals. I've heard this SO much from people and i dont like how they think "Oh your vegetarian then you must be stupid." naah not true. But i do know lol that we are less prone to disease causing meats =)
Anyway this was not meant to start another arguement i just wanted to make clear that not all vegetarian's have the same opinions and i hate to see us getting labeled as one thing =3
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Post by Fenris on Jun 23, 2005 10:04:16 GMT -5
like Moon Crypt i usually steer clear of this board, but i saw her post in the last 20 posts of this forum so i thought i'd pop in and voice my humble opinion.
i too am a vegetarian, and im also against hunting, but thats more because in this world we live in hunting is not necessary. if you want meat you go to the supermarket and buy it. hunting to live i havent got a problem with, its hunting for this thing you call sport that im so against. killing an animal jsut because you feel like it and want to have fun. i think thats some form of sick fun to be honest.
but others eating meat ive no problem with, people can eat what they want as long as they dont waft it in my face going 'mmmmmmm dead cow!' like some jerks tend to do to me merely because i choose not to eat meat.
and ive been a vegetarian for almost 4 years now, and i dont think i show much signs of growing less clever. more lazy with schoolwork yes, but thats got nothing to do with my brain, more the fact that i cant be bothered, again, nothing to do with my diet, ive always been lazy.
and theres alot of scientists out there saying that having a healthy vegetarian diet is better for you. true enough there must be some vegetarians out there who dont watch their diet and they're the bad examples. that depends on the person. also, if you eat meat sensibly thats also called healthy. i heard on the news that if you eat more than two portions of red meat a day you're more likely to get bowle cancer than someone who doesnt. theres tonnes of stuff like that out there. i get the sense im rambling now. i jsut know there are bad examples of diets on both fronts, vegetarian and meat eaters.
this is so going off track here. but me personally, im still against hunting because i think its unnesessary in this day and age. why take away a life needlessly? and thinking back to fox hunting, so cruelly?
im gonna shoosh now. lol
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Rishka
Newborn
always wondering, forever alone
Posts: 16
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Post by Rishka on Jun 23, 2005 12:04:33 GMT -5
Great... now I'm argueing with Fenris and Moonie *cowers*
That's just it, hunting IS a nesassary evil.
We have killed off most of the natural preditors of the animals that humans can legally hunt. We chased away cougars, wolves, coyotes - now ENDANGERED preditors, which allow deer, boar, pheasants, ect populations to burst. If we don't hunt them they become overpopulated, spread diseases, compete with animals that are endangered, and destroy their own habitiat. The hunting regulations change every year, how many of any animal you can bag, to fit how many of those animals need to be gone to allow the population to stay healthy. If a deer population naturally sudden declines, than you can't bag more than one that season, if it's out of control than it's somewhere around 5 or 6.
This was in my Bio book my Soph. year, so I don't remember the details exactly. Teddy Roosevelt fell in love with the deer on this one peice of land, and had it declared a park and outlawed hunting. He then allowed all the prediators to be killed and run off so they wouldn't threaten in the deer. In less than 20 years the deer were so overpopulated that they began to destroy the park and the compition killed off other animals. They had to reinstate hunting in the park just to keep the deer population checked because there were no more natural preditors to do it.
Hunting IS nesessary even in this day of age until we bring back preditors that generations before us have chased off. Until we stop shooting bears that come to close, and release wolves nationwide. Otherwise the population of other animals inceases to dramitically and they destroy other populations of animals, and their envirnoment.
So which is better? Hunting animals under a limit, when the animal should be hunted by natural preditors that arn't around any more, or letting that animals population grow to much and then suffer the consequences from TO MUCH of that animal?
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Post by alistair on Jun 24, 2005 16:31:42 GMT -5
OK Animals have a right to overun this world they were here before us. We just came in and took over like we own this planet. Many species of animals are dead simply because of man's will to become the most powerful being on the planet.
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Rokk
Sikla
High Warrior of Deor
There was something calling me, to negativity.
Posts: 251
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Post by Rokk on Jun 24, 2005 16:39:52 GMT -5
i cant be bothered to sign in on my other account, so, njah!
actually if you believe in the evolution theory, then we were once animals, and we just evolved from animals, so we've been on this earth the same amount of time as they have. but, if you belive in any kind of religion then im not sure what that'd be as lil'ole atheist me knows nothing.
but i see what you're saying about the populations, and i know about overhunting and everything, but was it not hunting that started these problems in the first place? by hunting we upset the balance. and now in some places it seems the only way to keep some environments stable is to continue with the killing. we hunted the wolf to extinction in England yeah, and we've banned fox hunting otherwise we'd be overrun with rabbits and their other prey. although ive heard many arguements from the farmers around here that the foxes are pests, but they;re the only predator we have left. and so what if they steal chickens? if they were overhunted there'd juts be more rabbits to eat the crops of a different farmer.
i just think that hunting has caused all our problems, i think its time to find other solutions. leave nature to nature, fix what we've done not continue in this idiotic fashion. eh, theres my piece.
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Rishka
Newborn
always wondering, forever alone
Posts: 16
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Post by Rishka on Jun 24, 2005 18:06:31 GMT -5
I complety agree with you Rokk (or whoever you are on your other account).
Over hunting has screwed us over, and now we are forced to hunt to keep the balance. There isn't any way that we can completely fix the damage that has already been done. Coyotes in the western states in the U.S. move into human lands, someone high enough up has their little yippy not-meant-to-survive-outside dog die and they start trying to get legislation passed to drive the coyotes back which increases rodent and deer populations which destroys the ecosystem, instead of trying to find a more peaceful solution that doesn't hurt the environment.
We've screwed ourselves over. Not us actually, past generations of humans, most of our generation is trying to fix it. But there isn't any other way that we <i>can</i> fix it because stupid people don't see the wisdom in allowing big, "dangerous" preditors share their backyards with them - even if in most cases the animals called that place home first. The only thing we can currently do is allow hunting so that prey animals do not destroy the environment more than we already have. Which is worse? Bagging a few deer that should naturally be killed off by a preditor, or letting it roam and breed and destroy other animal - and plant - populations do to unnatural competion and over foraging. People of this planet, we have already screwed ourselves enough and we can't fix it without reintroducing preditor speices - something most people do not want to see happen because Toto might get eatten. Hunting is nesassary to prevent the world from being destroyed by unchecked population growths in prey animals. Simple as that. Which is why hunting most preditors is prohibited and illegal - because we can't hunt those guys anymore, we've already seen what happens when we do.
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Post by alistair on Jul 9, 2005 4:50:05 GMT -5
As i have already stated the world was fine without humans and the Animals alone found balance but Humanoids just moved in and decided to become the so called "supirior" species which we aren't.......well not in my eyes.
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