Vegetarianism/Omnivorism/Veganism

[Chalos Autumn]

Vegetarianism: The practice of subsisting on a diet composed primarily or wholly of vegetables, grains, fruits, nuts, and seeds, etc., with eggs and dairy products.

Omnivorism: A "normal" human feeding behaviour, the practice of eating both animal and plant foods.

Veganism: The practice of omitting all animal products from the diet.

Okay. Here's the debate - is it more humane to practice veganism and/or some form of vegetarianism? AND: Can humans truly live without an omnivorous diet?

You can't count supplements. Attack it, kids.

[Fenris]

I've been a vegetarian for just over 6 years now, and I'm perfectly healthy and fine. I don't really take supplements, because if you eat properly then you don't have to, it's only the vegetarians who don't eat properly who have to take them. I occasionally take iron tablets when I know I haven't been eating properly or I know I've gone anaemic again (which used to happen when i was younger and still rather fussy on what I ate)

But since I've turned veggie, I've eaten a lot more vegetables, and tried a lot more new things than I did before I turned veggie. I used to be a really fussy eater, but then when I decided to cut out meat I realised I was gonna have to try new things and forget being so fussy.

But despite eating a wider variety of food, I've also cut out a lot of sweets, mostly not through choice, but now I refuse to buy any Masterfoods products (if you remember the whole, Mars lost its vegetarian status, and even though it's got it back, (although I still can't eat Celebrations, Bounty or, I think it's Revels) I still think they should not have changed it in the first place, so i refuse to give them any of my money by buying any of their products.)
I mean, when I first heard about gelatine I was actually quite sickened, and although I could have just been one of those veggies who cut didn't eat meat but wasn't that bothered about gravy, or gelatine or anything, i thought, no. its the principle, although I can't taste it, it's still in there, and the thought turns my stomach.

Can you live without meat? Yes I think you can, the first month can be tough (was even worse for me with my family taking bets on how long it would be before i cracked, they all lost.) but seriously, after that, and after a year of checking labels and stuff for what you can and cannnot eat, you start to get a sense of the type of things you need to check, and the type of things you know already are suitable.

If you eat right, it's a much healthier lifestyle, just make sure you get enough protein, eat foods rich in iron and all the minerals that meat has in, and you can exist a perfectly healthier lifestyle without meat, and without any form of guilt. Although I know meat-eaters don't feel guilty really, but if you have ever given someone stick for being a veggie, the next line is for you:
at least I know my food definately hasn't been bred in terrible conditions, and never destined for anything else but the slaughterhouse.
If you accept people's choice of diet, then no jibe is meant at you, but at this point I am utterly sick of people who constantly make jokes and even try to get me to eat meat again. No thank you, I like my meals carcass-free.

As for Omnivores, I have absolutely no problem with people eating meat, so long as they don't rub it in my face, I don't comment on it in any way. People all have a right to choose what they eat. It can be very healthy, but then again, it can be very unhealthy, depending on what you eat. Then again, a vegetarian diet can be unhealthy, as can a vegan diet.
I knew a girl who said, "I'm gonna turn Vegan for a year." "Why?" "Cause I figure, it's bound to be good for me eh?" it really wasn't, she didn't eat hardly any vegetables, cause she said she didn't like them, and lived off carb, pasta and potatoes. -__-

Veganism can be healthy (although I personally couldn't do it, I luuurve cheese. ^^) but then again, you have to be extremely aware of what you're eating, and eat enough beans and pulses, etc.


Ok... I'm getting a little off track. the more humane thing.
I know a load of people still say, oh, being a vegetarian is pointless, because the meat is still on the shelves, and by not buying it you're just making it go to waste. Not true. We're not creating a demand, and I'm trying to hunt down the fact for you now. (can't find the fact, which was how many animals a vegetarian can save in like, the space fo 10 years or something.. but it was quite a fair bit. enough to make a difference when you take into account how many vegetarians there are nowwdays. found this fact though:
"The average meat eater is responsible for the deaths of approximately 760 chickens, 46 Turkeys, 29 Sheep, 20 pigs, 15 ducks, 7 rabbits, 5 cows and more than 1000 fish."

oh, and this one might help this thread:
"The Vegetarian Society said that 117 year old Canadian Marie-Louise Febronie Meilleur was living proof of the benefits of being a vegetarian. Current research backs up this up ; lifelong vegetarians visit hospital 22% less often than meat eaters and when confined to hospital, spend a shorter time there."
evidently people can live very well without meat. =P

As for the humane thing... well.. judge for yourself..
"In order for hens to lay mass amounts of eggs, artificial light is on 17 hours a day. Each hen averages about 300 eggs per year. Once a hen's egg prodution declines they are slaughtered. Most hens live an average of 5 to 6 years."
"Veal calfs are raised in cages on an anemic diet. The cages are so small that the calves cannot stand or even move in order to clean themselves. The veal calves are kept in the dark most of their lives within the cages. They are subjected to a cruel and horrid death."
"Chickens are raised in crowded, unnatural enviroments. There are usually 3,000 or more in one pen. The birds are not able to move about freely or even spread their wings due to the over crowding. They use "nests" made out of metal and they are bred by unnatural means."
If more people became vegetarian, there would be less demand for meat, therefore, less animals would have to live in those conditions, and maybe more farmers would think about producing free-range produce.. (proper free-range. If they have less animals then the animals will have more space. I still don't agree with animals being bred purely to be slaughtered, but since I know it won't stop, then at least they should have as much of a life as possible)

ok.. so.. basically.. yes.. i think being vegan is very humane, (cause the way that eggs are produced en-masse) being veggie is also humane.
and yes, it is veeery possible to live without meat, so long as you eat properly. in fact its usually healthier on the whole, because you're inclined to cut out sweets with gelatine, etc, in.

this is Fen, shutting up now. =P

EDIT: damn... i just go on and on don't i?

[Tor]

I am omnivore, just like we humans were evolved to be. But I have NO problems with people being vegan or veggie. I did try to become veggie at one point, but found it too hard to quit (I never got round to quiting...what I did start doing to prepare myself however was eating more veg and other foods...so...I still made myself healthier and less fussy without even becoming a veggie).

Those facts about animal cruelty are true - I watched so many videos on PETA it ain't funny. But hey, if you buy your food free-range or organic you are far less likely to end up with a piece of meat which was once an animal suffering in that way.
My dad owns sheep, breeds them and gets the lambs slaughtered. I have also seen how they're slaughtered on 'The F Word' (yeh I know, typical place to see it but that is a genuine slaughter house) and it has to be the most humane way of killing an animal that's cheap/quick and easy. There is the most minimal amount of pain involved in that death compared to the slaughter's I've seen on PETA *shudders at the memories*
But yeh, my dad's sheep are all brought up in wide open fields, get plenty of food and good care. And the meat tastes great. I know where it comes from as well, so therefore I can trust it.
Buy your meat from a Butchers instead of a supermarket and you're far more likely to be eating something that hasn't suffered a horrible life.

Sad thing is...until I actually get out there and live life on my own...I can't prove that what I eat today was killed humanely.

Every sort of eating is humane...it all depends on where you buy your food and how your lifestyle is. At least...I believe so.
So be what you want, so long as your happy and healthy!

[Shunké]

First of all, I've been told that vitamins have not been proven to help the body. How true that is, I dunno, that's just what my college teacher told me, so please dont' bite my head off.

I'm an omnivore, even after all that crap I had to put up with in school so far. I'm a very picky eater, and I don't think I can survive very healthy off of bread, cheese, green beans and peas. XP

Like Fae said, in my opinion it's probably more humane to be a vegan because the demand of meat products does lessen little by little, and for people who are and know what they're doing can generally be more healthy.
In my opinion, people who are vegan/vegetarian are more healthy because they usually have to go out of their way at first to find out how they can keep themselves healthy on what they eat despite the lack of meat/animal products. And another factor plays into that: fast food. Alot of people who don't bother to research their diet and what kind of crap they put into their body are more likely to be hospitalized because of high cholesterol that causes cardiac problems or some kind of fatty food related diagnosis. I'm not saying that all vegans/vegetations don't eat fast food, bit if they would it would most likely be a salad, the healthiest thing on a fast food menu. Just because everything else is made from meat. Well, maybe not fries, but you get my point.

But I have to say this, if you do eat meat, make sure it's cooked all the way through. Why? Because when they slaughter a cow, they don't wash it off. So when you eat you're ground beef, you're eating parts of the cow that don't always come from the best places, and basically you're eating poop/dirt. That's what I've been taught, from a veterinarian teacher.
So make sure you cook you're poop all the way kids! XP