MJ being Idolized

[poseidon]

Do you think that, no he's dead, Michael Jackson should be idolized? Well, even more idolized?

I know that happens with all the great actors and music artists (Luthur Vandross, Bernie Mack, etc).

Even more idolized? I say no. Now, don't get me wrong, he was a great artist, the King of Pop, but he died as will you and I.

[Chalos Autumn]

Yes.

Besides the fact that he is indeed labeled the King of Pop by millions, I think some people look far past the racial barriers he successfully tackled and also how much he changed the face of modern music and dance in his higher days.

The way that he died hasn't a thing to do with his idolization (as that is how it seems you are putting it, that a death means nothing). While we all will die eventually, it is not our deaths that make us, it is what we leave behind. And depending on that, we will either be idolized, be somewhat remembered, or simply be forgotten.

[linnaea]

When King Lear dies in Act V, do you know what Shakespeare has written? He's written "He dies." That's all, nothing more. No fanfare, no metaphor, no brilliant final words. The culmination of the most influential work of dramatic literature is "He dies." It takes Shakespeare, a genius, to come up with "He dies." And yet every time I read those two words, I find myself overwhelmed with dysphoria. And I know it's only natural to be sad, but not because of the words "He dies." but because of the life we saw prior to the words. I've lived all five of my acts, Mahoney, and I am not asking you to be happy that I must go. I'm only asking that you turn the page, continue reading... and let the next story begin. And if anyone asks what became of me, you relate my life in all its wonder, and end it with a simple and modest "He died."

-Mr. Magorium’s Wonder Emporium

Like Chalos said people aren't idolized for dying or the way they die and death is likewise not meaningless. Sure, we all come to an end be it timely or otherwise, but the people we leave behind will always remember us for the impacts that we have made on them. Not because we were famous or otherwise, but because we all have something to share and something that others will treasure about us. Even an enemy will bitterly remember their rivals when they have passed away.

[poseidon]

I never said that he's idolized for dying or the manner in which they died. It's why he's being idolized.

King of Pop? Yes
Charity work? Yes
Donation of time and money? Yes
Inspired miollions of people? Yes

That's not the problem. I've listened to him my entire life and have loved/loves his music. The problem lies in over idolization for just singing or acting. We, as a whole and as a media driven society, don't idolize others that have made significant contributions to society like we do actors and singers and sports figures and dirty politicians: It's people like Martian Luther King Jr and his father, Nelson Mendala, Mother Theresa, Gandhi, Princess Diana, and the WWII Veteran down the street and the significant contributions made by people like Michael Jackson and those just listed.

Over idolize just because he could sing? No
His contributions to the music industry, to society, and to blacks wanting to make it like he did? Yes.

[linnaea]

How can you know that the people aren't idolizing him for his contributions to the music industry/society/ etc? Your debate is unclear. You don't seem to have any argument or facts to support it - whatever it might even be. You might want to rethink what you're trying to get at and clarify it to everyone.

[poseidon]

The question was: "Do you think Michael Jackson should be over idolized?"
I said no.

[Ƨγnєrgγ]

I think the confusing point here that is trying to be made is that, because of his death he will be more idolised than before, as is the case with the majority of artists. I think it's quite clear that this is exactly what is happening here. Before his death, Micheal Jackson had been pushed to the side for a while, due mostly to the molestation trial and the controversy there. He left his Neverland estate, and fled to Bahrain. You could say he was out of the spotlight.

It only makes sense that now that he's died he's come back into the spotlight. It's only right that he be remembered now in an honourable light.

However, I am not happy about the way people tend to grow much larger, much greater, and much brighter after they die. I suppose it's a natural coping mechanism for people to inflate the deceased posthumeously, but I don't think it always paints an accurate picture.

For instance, a girl at the school I used to attend just died in a car wreck this month. Prior to her death, she was admittedly an irresponsible and often mean or crude person. Posthumeously, her intelligence, and other positive aspects were inflated, and used to paint her memory.

On the other hand, I think those that cared for her deserve the right to remember her in a positive light. It's not necessarily distortion if the idea is simply to focus on the positive. The same of course goes to Micheal Jackson, Billy Mays, John Carradine, and others that have died this month (or any month, ever, for that matter).

[linnaea]

Farrah Fawcett... just have to add it cause I'm really annoyed that she's been almost completely overshadowed. She's been a real inspiration with the battle that she fought, not only that but she's been an amazing actor in quite a few movies and shows. She deserves a little attention even if it is my one post in the sea of Michael Jackson.


Also, Jackson was supposed to go on a come back tour in Britain, so he would've mildly been back in the spotlight with or without dying. Synergy, you seem to be stating this as if he just chose to die just to get into the spotlight again, but unless he somehow committed suicide via his heart attack then I think that idea is far fetched at best. It's not really people that blow it out of proportion, it's the media (when it comes to celebrities).

Most normal people that die don't get on the news about how they died. My friend's older sister died in her senior year of high school on the way to prom in a car crash. She wasn't mean like synergy's example, but she wasn't on the news and she wasn't over glorified. We did make a memorial for her, two in fact. The art club got together and made a special painted chair for the library of the high school and then every donated some money to get a bench outside dedicated to her with a plaque.

Meanwhile a friend of mine that drowned in the river because of the idiots that he was with was mentioned on TV. First as lost, then as found dead. He was never a very smart kid, but because of those of us who knew him and loved him we argued against anyone that mentioned anything bad about him - you didn't know that girl very well I take it Synergy, perhaps you never got a chance to see her good side. Not everyone is going to see the brighter part of a person, and in his later years we didn't get to see a whole lot of Jackson's good side. Whether he was really a child molester or a dangerous parent is forever between him and the children if he even actually did that. It's innocent until proven guilty, not guilty until proven innocent and I think only one case was actually paid off because Jackson said he was sick of being blamed and coult just pay it off.

And the reason why he gave up Neverland Ranch wasn't because of molestation cases, by the way. It was because of financial trouble. Not only did he get rid of the ranch and move somewhere else but he sold the rights to just about all of the Beatles songs that he had copy written to him.

[Ƨγnєrgγ]

Jun 30, 2009 16:45:41 GMT -5 @linnaea said:

Farrah Fawcett... just have to add it cause I'm really annoyed that she's been almost completely overshadowed. She's been a real inspiration with the battle that she fought, not only that but she's been an amazing actor in quite a few movies and shows. She deserves a little attention even if it is my one post in the sea of Michael Jackson.


Also, Jackson was supposed to go on a come back tour in Britain, so he would've mildly been back in the spotlight with or without dying. Synergy, you seem to be stating this as if he just chose to die just to get into the spotlight again, but unless he somehow committed suicide via his heart attack then I think that idea is far fetched at best. It's not really people that blow it out of proportion, it's the media (when it comes to celebrities).

Most normal people that die don't get on the news about how they died. My friend's older sister died in her senior year of high school on the way to prom in a car crash. She wasn't mean like synergy's example, but she wasn't on the news and she wasn't over glorified. We did make a memorial for her, two in fact. The art club got together and made a special painted chair for the library of the high school and then every donated some money to get a bench outside dedicated to her with a plaque.

Meanwhile a friend of mine that drowned in the river because of the idiots that he was with was mentioned on TV. First as lost, then as found dead. He was never a very smart kid, but because of those of us who knew him and loved him we argued against anyone that mentioned anything bad about him - you didn't know that girl very well I take it Synergy, perhaps you never got a chance to see her good side. Not everyone is going to see the brighter part of a person, and in his later years we didn't get to see a whole lot of Jackson's good side. Whether he was really a child molester or a dangerous parent is forever between him and the children if he even actually did that. It's innocent until proven guilty, not guilty until proven innocent and I think only one case was actually paid off because Jackson said he was sick of being blamed and coult just pay it off.

And the reason why he gave up Neverland Ranch wasn't because of molestation cases, by the way. It was because of financial trouble. Not only did he get rid of the ranch and move somewhere else but he sold the rights to just about all of the Beatles songs that he had copy written to him.

I wasn't at all suggesting that his death was to put him in the spotlight again, and nor was I trying to suggest anything bad about people who die.

I did in fact know the girl in my school who died, and she actually was very smart, and good to her friends. Just irresponsible.

All I was suggesting was that some distortion does exist when people die. I wasn't saying whether that was right or wrong, just saying it exists.

Also, I'm sorry for your loss Linnea.

[▪ Talar ▪]

WEll yes, I am sad that MJ died, and is very tradgic, he did wright many brilliant songs, but no to as he shouldnt be concindered as great as the young, good people that have died. What I think poseidon is trying to say is that should micheal jackson be known as great as more other great people such as like martin luther king jr, or people who have died in wars, princess diana.

[linnaea]

Jun 30, 2009 17:44:27 GMT -5 Ƨγnєrgγ said:

Also, I'm sorry for your loss Linnea.

I'm rather desensitized to death, I don't really care one way or the other nowadays, but your sympathy is very kind. Thank you.

[Sandhya]

I selected 'idc' because he was a great singer that will be remembered but!, enjoy the new music thats comming instead. I don't mean to be rude to MJ lovers but this is what I think.