Student rights

[Shunké]

[glow=black,2,3]
Ok, this happened at my school, and since then, it's be brought up all over Florida, not to mention every class.

Well, you know how some students have school newspapers? Well, my highschool is one on them.

In our OPINION column, one of the students, a bi student, wrote a rather well- written piece telling how gayness is not a choice, and so on. The article was passed by the teacher, who sent it to be printed. But then our principle read it, and replaced it with some lame thing another teacher wrote.
She claims that it’s to “mature” for a high school student to read. Ok, what’s the deal with that? They’re a lot of gay or bi people that go to my school, and some are my friends! How can someone say that something is too mature, when it’s happening right in our very school?!

So, this brings me to my question- do you think that students have a right to print reasonable articles? And by reasonable, I mean non alcohol/ drug promoters, or anything that would be sexual. I mean, what’s the use of a school newspaper if they’re going to turn down every article?
[/glow]

[nathaniel]

Well Shunke you have to understand something here before I continue with this: students have never had many rights to begin with.

My school even has a constitution, and though they say we have the freedom of the press, and speech, we lack many of the other freedoms that have been created by our founding fathers. Basically student rights are non-existent. At my school, and I'm sure many others. We have no right to bear arms (and rightly so because I don't like this one anyway), we can't freely disagree and stop going to school. We'll just get punished for practicing one of our rights.

I have to ask: Why is it that students don't have the same rights as adults? Do they really think that we don't have a mind of our own? Anyway, the reality is that we don't have anyrights, and there isn't much that we can do about it. Believe it, my mom and I made a petition to cancel the new math ciriculum and get it back to the old one, but as soon as we had almost half the school's student signatures, we sent it to the principal and he basically shredded it.

The use of your school news paper, my dear, is just something to pass the time. They want you to think that you have some rights, but won't let you do much. Of course I'm rather bias, so if you don't agree with me that's perfectly fine. I mean you might have a story that states students have more rights than adults. But that's not the case with me so... //shrug// debate away my pretties.

[Farrah]

OK...after that, it's hard to say anything right, but here's my take on the subject:
I think that students should have more rights than they do now. For instance, I don't like the fact that in our school, our teachers have the right to rub in things and call us names. There is a teacher, an orchestra teacher in fact, who calls everyone names and we can't do anything about it. Actually, the other day, my friend, a cellist, was playing something and he missed a note. Mr. Teacher, as I'll call him so I don't get in trouble if someone directs him here, looked at him with a nasty look. Then he stood up, walked over to him, and got in his face. He then proceeded to yell at the top of his lungs, "That was the worst thing I've ever heard ANYONE ever play! I think I'll just have to puke in your face it was so bad, you failure!" Yes...those exact words, plus a few more to enhanse the situation in which my friend found himself. I mean, he's a teacher for crying out loud! Gah! Calling students "failures" is NOT the right way to do it. No one can complain either 'cause if they do, he just says it's to promote better learning and practice. My other teacher, Miss T., I'll call her, uses us for politics. If there's something she doesn't like about the way our local government is run, she'll write up a petition and make us signing it for whatever she thinks should be done. Our principle is also evil. OK. In our High School, my grade gets to go in the courtyard when we're good. That means, picking up after we're done eating. Well, we have two lunches. First lunch litters up everything for second lunch. Guess which one I'm in? Second. Well, first lunch went a little too far and messed up everything. They threw trash EVERYWHERE. So, we got banned from it for a week and a half 'cause we didn't clean it up. Then, she marched around the dark and dreary lunchroom inside with her lunch, went up to every table and declared, "Isn't it a wonderful day to be inside?" and then walked outside into the sunshine where she proceeded to eat her lunch. EVIL!!!! She does a bunch of other mean things, but that's one of them that I really HATE!!! Anyway, there it is. That's my tipical school life. It sucks. I'm sure others are worse, but I really hate the policemen. There's a particular one that gives all the preps the green zone all the time...and he's racist. I'm white, but my friend is black. When I tell him a funny joke, he'll laugh. When she tells him one that's even funnier, he glares at her and stalks off. It really WAS a good joke with no bad content. The preps decided to steal some badges off his desk and wear them around school. He found out what they had done, and he laughed. Yes, LAUGHED! But not at my friend's funny joke. OH NO! He has to laugh at STEALING!! Well..there it is. Mostly. There are a couple other things like our Government teacher being completely and utterly one sided on all political issues and my English teacher making us read books about discrimitation but not doing anything about what's going on in the school. About student's rights, it isn't the democracy we want. It's totalitarianism...maybe oligarcy if you think teachers are also in charge. But, we don't get many rights. I do think we need more (not including right to bear arms...thankyou schools for that idea) rights including right to wear what we want in some schools with uniforms, right of speech as long as it's not against respectful, race, religion...etc standards. I also think we should be able to select what classes we want...I mean, only we know what we want to do when we grow up. Of course we need to be able to do basic math and writing and know a little about our past history and science, but is that what we need to know to be successful at our particular job we'll hold? For instance, I really want to be a writer. I HATE government and biology. Algebra is OK, but I still like writing better. So why won't they let me take more English classes instead of other things I'm not good at and never will be? I don't like that at all! Students do need more rights, but where will teachers draw the line? Everyone wants to be in power, no matter what they say. It can't be helped. So when is the discrimination against age going to stop? Probably never. I mean, we can't vote, so do you think they'll let us have a say in anything important?

[nathaniel]

Farrah, we do get to choose the classes we want. They're called 'electives' for a reason. We have freedom of race and religion (though I don't see race as a freedom, racism shouldn't be brought up in schools because that's just not the way the world should work). We don't have freedom of speech, and some of us do have a right to wear what we want (save things that have violence or drug paraphanalia). And the point in government is so that you know how the US nation works. In government you're supposed to learn about electoral votes, elections, how a bill becomes a law, etc.... and if you're school is that bad I seriously consider you having a parent help you start a petition and if this is true get you whole school to sign it and submit it to someone higher up than a principal.

[Captain Z]

[glow=black,2,300]

Yeah, hold on the two of you. Your over exaggerating like theres really no tommorrow. First of all. The REASON why they make you take courses agaisnt your will, is because, if you don't get the job you want, or that job doesnt produce enough income for you and your family, you dont get totally screwed over. Lets say, if you try to become a writer, and all the publishers refuse to produce your books, or literature, you have ANOTHER option than grabbing a pan and hitting the streets. Its really for your own good. I know, you hate it now. I hate it too. I hate the fact that I need four english credits to graduate. But if something doesnt go as you've planned in the future, the first thing you'll think is "good thing i had this course."

Secondly, you both are going insane over civil rights. Your both being stupid. First of all the right to bear arms is a given. The fact that america even has that ammenment is causing you too many lives. Its a stupid law, it was for revolutionary days, and it was the only reason that you succeded in defeating the british canadians. But now that stuff has no point. You have a militia who is better equiped than the national guard of some of the eight richest nations in the world. Your also saying that your teacher has the right to do this and this and be all up in your faces. Its not a right, but theres not even a law agaisnt it. Its called discipline.(sp) They do it so the class just doesnt get wasted. And you have the right to freedom of speech. You dont realize it because the teachers are preventing you to speak. The authority of the teachers can be pressed aside. You americans have all the rights in the world to be able to do what you cant. And if a teacher says no, or a principal say no, it doesnt stop there! theres the school board, and then the provincial and federal ministries of education. this is there job! they dont just listen to teachers, they arnt even teachers! find these people! never complain to a teacher, your wasting your time.

When you say we dont have the same rights as adults, your partly right. we dont have the right to drink, drive, vote, go to federal prison, own assets, run business, run finances, etc. But all of that is a given! Otherwise we have all the same rights as adults. you turn twelve, you become responsible for your own actions, you can go to juvinile prison, you are sentenced under the young offenders, and we have the right to freedoms, mobility, fundamentals, equality, etc. we can represent our selves in court. its all there, so stop complaining.

[/glow]

[nathaniel]

Firstly Ziev, the right to bear arms was originally a joke, something to lighten the mood here so that I didn't sound like I was coming from no where. Second I don't appreciate you calling me stupid. If you want to come in and start calling people stupid do it somewhere else because that's very rude. You of all people should know that having been here for so much longer than I have. Tisk Tisk. I'd also like to point out that you're being very critical.

But I do agree with you about the teacher. It isn't a right, but its the way that they show you need to pay attention if you wish to know these things for future tests. Oh, and who's to say you're not the one being stupid? So far you've shown that you don't live in the US and I'm wondering how much you really know about us.

By the way, I am merely raising a point that in school, we seem to have little to no right at all. It is my view, and if you wish to call it stupid, fine. Though I don't approve, and find it very rude and discouraging to ever want to debate with such a critical person.

[Lydair]

I'm going to have to agree with Nathaniel about Ziev. Completely.

Farrah, preps get away with stuff because they're 'PREPS.' They're probably cute, ditzy, guy-crazy sluts who have nothing better to do because their entire life is keepin up with gossip, pleasing their boyfriends, acting stupid and getting away with things.

You should really go to the school board about the police officer; he could get suspended from his job- and the teachers WILL get yelled at if your parents call in/contact. The next time your teacher gets you to sign a petition, DON'T DO IT. Its voluntary; she has no right to do that unless you agree to do it. If you get in trouble, lol, direct them to ME. -grips frying pan- You want some of this? BRING IT!

LOL. Sorry.

Anyway, have your parents call and somethign will happen, I promise. Or, like I previously said, direct them to me and I'll set them, straight.

[Wolfbane]

All you people do on the Debates board is babble and whine about such mindless things, my GOODNESS.

Well, I'll give my input - it's most likely easier in school in other countries than it is in Japan or America - Americans are trying too hard to press the minds of their youth to become as smart as Japan's youth, and Japanese children simply go to cram school - everything is forced into their minds. America, in my opinion, just needs to hush up and stop trying so damn hard; it's not like they're going to save the earth from destruction or anything important, oi, oi?

As for student rights, I don't think that students should be forced to go to school, forced to learn. If children want to make something of themselves or their parents wish to give them an education, they should feel free to do so instead of being forced to do what they don't want to do. Why is it suddenly necessary for everyone to work for everyone else? If people don't want to learn, so be it, but they shouldn't just sit there taking up space in a school - if they want to be failures and make nothing of themselves, so be it - it shouldn't be the rest of the world's problem. Grarrr. I know there are a lot of flaws in my opinion, but I really don't care, I'm just telling what I think, and I do expect people to criticise what I say. It's only natural to expect such a thing, especially from such a diverse group of people who all have only one thing in common; their love for wolves. -Shrug-

[Captain Z]

[glow=black,2,300]

Yeah fine, maybe stupid was a little offset, but I really think that both of you are being pretty arrogent and paranoid. American system of schooling is fine. Yah your right, I dont live in the US. I live north of that border. You know why I know so much about america. Cause everything is about america. I cant go one day without hearing something about something american. its like your country is the dominant species. Thats a different topic.

also remember that your forefathers had it so much worse, the teachers had the right to whip them and insult them in public, but out of that generation, you'll see some really bright people, so even without rights, you can succeed. so be happy with what you have!

You really shouldnt argue about civil rights in school. if your not getting along with rights at school, then really, you'll enjoy the work place. You dont like something there, your fired. tough world. a world of wolfbane yes. Last time i checked you dont have to go to school. You are permitted to stay home if your parents provide a valid education for you. Yeah, I also know alot of bright kids, you should be able to prove that you can make a career off what you know, and start from there, at your own risk of course. And for working for everyone else. I unno, thats how society works. everyone works together then you get something done, i guess thats just how it works.

and of course i love being critical, im sure wolfbane does too, thats what makes it so much more fun. the heat of an arguement[/glow]

[Wolfbane]

Precisely, Ziev; That's why everyone hates me - because I like to argue and they can't seem to live with that fact so they get all "GRAR LET'S HATE WOLFBANE GRRGRR -Strike, riot-"

And I do agree - everything is about america. OH GOD LET'S GET INVOLVED IN A WAR THAT WE DON'T BELONG IN BECAUSE WE'RE AMERICA! EVERYONE WILL THINK WE'RE HEROS[/b]!!!

... Or maybe I just hate the country and like to bash it because of the retarded people running its government. Yeah, I think that's it. But what country doesn't hate the 'free land' these days?[/color]

[Lydair]

Hey guys, leave my country alone. I don't trust Bush with this war either, but you don't see my dissing YOUR countries. And yes, I DO believe America has been heroic many, many, many times. More than I cna say for some countries. So take this BACK to the school rights thing and stay away from america-bashing, okies? ^_^ Thanks.

Nobody hates you, Wolfbane. We all love you too much, you lug.

[Shunké]

[glow=black,2,3]
Wow, just, wow. So, this is what happens when I open my big mouth? Great. I just wanted to debate about what litle rights we have in the school newspaper, and now people are calling each other stupid and like Lydair said, bashing america. I'm not complaining about American school! I'm complaining about one, isolated situation that made an entire uproar about the school newspaper and the students' right that entite it! We make the newspaper, pay for the paper, we should have a right to what goes in it!
Not all Americans are so great, and not all people wish to live in America. Me being one of them. So, yeah. Don't judge, people!

But really, if it's an opinon column, shouldn't our opinons be alowed? I mean, come on, what good is a school newspaper if one is going to talk about Halloween being innocent or evil, or people stealing jewlry out of stores after a stupid hurricane means it's the end of the world. Why not talk about real life issues? Sure, the hurricane and Halloween are real life issues, but not everyone celebrates Halloween, not to mention I don't know anybody who think Halloween is evil. And the who Hurricane end of the world thing, that kid writes something every article about the world ending! I mean, come on, is the world going to end every time a hurricane sweeps the coast of the US?
But Gay is a real- life issue, that people encounter some way, every day. It's something to get talking about, something to talk about. If we're going to put end of the world articles in the newspaper every issue, how are these journalist going to learn?
[/glow]

[Kiesha]

The reason we don't have so many rights and we aren't taken seriously (in America, at least) is because we can't vote. No one cares because we can't do anything to change governments or laws or really put in our own views of thing. I hope that makes sense because I didn't say it very well. But just so you no Wolfbane, I hate the war as much as you and it's the stupidist thing ever, but lay off on my country please. Also, I don't think America cares if other countries think we hereos, we're just there for oil mainly. I'm not very well about the facts, but people can point what's wrong with my post and stuff. *pokes Ziev*

[Captain Z]

[glow=black,2,300]

Lydairs a true patriot. thats what it comes down too, il have fun debating you with my anti-capitalism. Yeah you've done a handful of things heroic, and a bigger, hulk size handful of this just plane selfish. Vietnam war. Gulf War part 2. The fact that you were the very last of nations to react for tsunami relief, and covered it ever so little on CNN and FOX, and reacted to a hurricane which was like a fiftieth in size in terms of devastation by pleading, pleading for money. Even countries who are considered the most economically unstable commited to your cause. South Africa donated! anyways, different topic.

Yeah, actually i think most of us are of ages between 12-18. Yeah we cant vote, but we can horrible screw them up in two-three-four years time. If they dont appeal to us, there government is history as soon as our generation passes 18. But i know, that really, theres no one for us to vote anymore. Either way we get screwed over, either by health premiums or more taxes.

But opinions, yes, now i'm on topic. it is most definately wrong for that teacher to remove that article, but you can react. react with freedom of expression. you could even join your newspaper team people and try and cut off the teachers input from it. Run it yourselves, make it a true opinion page of the STUDENTS. screw the teachers, they can make their own newspaper. thats what i would do. most of our clubs at school are run single handedly by the students, the teachers just want to know that we dont tear anything down or damage stuff. its that simple. take charge. *pokes keisha for being selfish with the oil comment* bwaha.[/glow]

[Farrah]

About other varg calling me stupid, that's OK. I'm stupid anyway! I know that. I agree with Wolfbane in saying stuff about America. It's my country, but that doesn't mean I agree with it all of the time. I understand that those here DO have ALOT of rights, but who doesn't hunger and thirst for more than you already have? Once something is done or gotten, it's old news. Take for example, Amoria. She just got a love bird. Already, she wants another lovebird so she can make a mating pair. You see? Give anyone an inch and they take a mile. Usually, though, it's for the better good. Also, America DID get into the war for apparently supposedly good reasons. The info. Bush had was not accurate, but he did the best he could with what he knew. Again, enough about Bush and the war. How come I always get into political discussions?? Wolfbane, we do like you! Who else would call me names, bash me constantly, and always argue with me? Exactly.
I think that 15 and older should be allowed to vote! I mean, for Tor's sake, we can drive and we can't fricken vote! That makes me angry! Aaah! Grrr! *Farrah froths at the mouth and growls manically*
OK...that's over with. Anyway...back to my school...I have already informed some people (higher than principles) that things are going weirdly at my school. But they never listen. My parents are going to take me out of it next year though. I just have to finish this year and it's over! Yes! About signing petitions, you can't get out of it or she'll write you up for not complying with teacher's commands and blah blah blah. Well, that's all I have to say about that. Please, let's not get back into American politics. Regardless about learning about voting and all of that "useful" information...I get enough of Government during the school day. 2 hours of it. Please, no more! I can't stand it! PLEASE!!!